Why Are Climate Justice and Racial Justice Inextricably Linked?

Monica (0s): Hey Jennifer. 

Jennifer (2s): Hey Monica. 

Monica (3s): We took a week off last week and caught up with each other about biophilia and sort of reset our goals for the podcast. But we are back this week with our guest interviews in a big way. 

Jennifer (16s): Yes, our guest today is Jacqui Patterson who's the senior director of the NAACP environmental and climate justice program. Prior to joining the NAACP, Jacqui volunteered for the Peace Corps in Jamaica and held several positions in the public health organizations like XG and IMA World Health, where she focused largely on gender justice. In her current role, Jackie works to address racial disparities and the environmental based health outcomes and the effects of climate change.

Monica (44s): The work she’s doing is so impactful and I think that really comes across in ways in which issues of race and public planetary health are so deeply intertwined as many people will learn today, and it’s definitely something that sounds scary when you start to talk about it, but Jacqui has some really common sense ideas about how to go about addressing all these intertwined issues. 

Jennifer (1m): She really does. So let’s get to our interview with Jacqui Patterson. 

Jennifer (1m 10s): Jacqui, thank you so much for joining us today. Monica and I are so happy to have you with us. 

Jacqui (1m 15s): Thank you, it’s a pleasure to be here. 

Jennifer (1m 17s): We’re thrilled and I think that there's so much we want to get to, but I guess, first of all, we'd love to know and we want to share with our listeners is where you came from and how you ultimately wound up with this position at the NAACP. 

Jacqui (1m 28s): Thank you, I was born and raised on the south side of Chicago. My mom came up to Chicago, through the Great Migration, Dublin, Mississippi, and my dad also immigrated to Chicago from Jamaica, West Indies. So I was raised in a household that really was a blending of cultures. And so that was definitely a critical part of my formation. 

Yeah, from there I did work on special education and then went on to do work and including going to peace Corps in Jamaica, which was interesting because they placed me in Jamaica specifically, because I guess it's a area where a lot of peace Corps volunteers ended up leaving early. And so they thought since I was Jamaican, then I would be able to stick it out. So, and there I did special education and started to do some gender justice work. When I was there, I helped to found, founded a group that was a chapter of the association of women in development. And, and so that was the beginning of my gender justice work. So fast forward ahead, did work on, went from, from special education to doing work on public health. And then always with this thread around gender justice still and ended up working at an international organization, doing public health and then another international organization doing human rights work around the intersection of gender justice and macro finance, food security and climate change. 

And so that was the first time that I actually started to formally do work around climate change in that, and from there, it was when I joined the NAACP in 2009 and I'm working on climate change. And at that point I hadn't really, I did two, a two credit course in like a required course on environmental health in public health school. But other than that, I had done a couple of, of special, I mean, environmental type, you know, because when I was in Peace Corps, the place that I lived in actually had its water supply contaminated by Shell Oil. 

And so that was my first real experience with environmental justice or injustice. And, and then after I finished doing the work at the end of my five-year stint, doing the public health work was hurricane Katrina. And I ended up going down to, to Houston and volunteering in a disaster recovery center for six weeks. So that was another kind of direct connection with, with environmental justice, but my training and my work hadn't really been consistently in environmental justice. 

So when this opportunity came at the NACP, I thought, you know, I'm not– like to be a director of a program around climate change. And when I really only kind of did these episodic engagements with, I thought sounded a little bit– I felt a little under-qualified, but then once I started doing it, it became clear that it actually was a strength because one of the challenges in terms of the NAACP communities not necessarily seeing this environmental climate change in particular as their work was because people who were environmentalist like kind of zealot, but, you know, environmentalist weren't really talking their language. 

Weren't really talking about their, the realities of their communities and our communities. And so from me, coming in with the, a, with a similar kind of newness was, was really helpful in terms of really meeting people where they are, and really helping to kind of talk about the real issues that we're encountering every day and hearing what people are saying about their experiences and begin to weave that narrative around the intersectionality of climate change and environmental issues and the lived experiences of our communities. 

So that has been what has, and even, you know, and, and that has been what has made it so gratifying to do the work because it felt like it was in the sweet spot of my purpose and my kind of capabilities and, and also my kind of strengths and being able to do that and why after 11 years it has been, so it has grown and been so gratifying all along the way. So a long answer to a short question. That’s where we are today. 

Monica (6m 02s): No, it's fantastic. Well, and I think that a lot of people, well I'll speak for myself, like, you know, you know, really understanding climate and health and justice are so intertwined, but I feel like perhaps they've been siloed, you know, in years past. And so, you know, obviously a lot of things over the past, you know, year to three years have brought it front and center and brought them together. But I, I, think that's interesting. 

So of the time that you've been there and doing this work, have you seen that shift because you probably have had to educate people of how they're connected and sometimes we don't really recognize that, you know, environmental justice is a civil rights issue. Right. And so tell me a little bit about like that continuum of how you've sort of moved people into that understanding. Obviously we have a lot of work to do still, but talk to me a little bit about that. Cause I think that's super important. 

Jacqui (7m 02s): Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting because as we know the quote from Audrey Lord, there's no such thing as a single issue struggle because we don't live single issue lives. And that has been so evident from the time that I began working with communities and because of, you know, kind of the nonprofit industrial complex, so to speak. And there has been a, a false siloing of these very, very interconnected issues. 

And so for me, in some ways, it hasn't necessarily been having to educate as it relates to our communities around that because it is their lives, but in some ways I've had to kind of deconstruct, you know, some of the ways that the nonprofit industrial complex has says has indoctrinated these false separations, right. And so, you know, we're having conversations then the intersections automatically unfold when people talk about these things and then it's helping to kind of reintegrate like the language and the narrative. 

So that that's what comes through and you know, what comes through as we tell our stories. And so, so one of the, so both in terms of the, the intersectional impacts, as well as the intersectional solutions, there's a group called climate interactive that always uses this term “multi solving”. And, and that has been so critical to, to helping communities to see that it's not a matter of kind of taking on another issue. It's a matter of, of developing solutions that are going to address these issues at their root. And so, so yes, to, to some degree of kind of education and, and, but in also really kind of dismantling and, and kind of reestablishing a narrative that really reflects the lived experiences has been what a lot of that work has been, and then externally definitely having to do education around these intersections. So whenever I like, it's very fascinating to see the light bulb go off whenever I'm doing a talk or you're having a conversation. 

And, and I, there's one particular example that I give around, I talk about kids who are in communities that are in the, in the shadows of these smokestacks and how they are, you know, having, you know, they're ingesting lead and sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxide, which is interfering with everything from their ability to go to school because of, you know, asthma and, and miss days of school to their ability to, to learn when they're in school because lead and manganese affects attention and, and, and cognitive functioning. 

And then the ways that the intersection intersecting with that, it's not just the smokestacks, but also the near roadway air pollution, which is another source of pollution for the communities. And then on top of it, all of these very safe communities are often the ones that don't have access to healthy and nutritious foods because of food insecurity in those communities, which again, you know, impairs functioning in school. And then on top of it all, again, we know that for black kids, for example, that an African-American family making $50,000 a late year, and are more likely to live next to a toxic facility than a white American family making $10,000 a year, according to Dr. Robert Bullard's research. And that if you're living next to a toxic facility then your property values on average are at least 15% lower. And we also know their property values are, are, are what finances our school system. So you have kids who aren't able to go to school. It's the same as other kids in terms of needs of asthma rates with African-American children being three to five times more likely to enter the hospital from asthma attack and two to three times more likely to die from asthma attack. 

And then we have kids who are, when they're in school, they're having a hard time paying attention, and then you have under-resourced schools, so that they're not even at the same quality of education and resources in the school. And then we talk about how, if you're not on grade level by the third grade, that studies show that you're more likely to enter into the school to prison pipeline. So these are the types of intersections that I then have to explain to other, other, other people to get. Whereas the kids, the communities are living these realities every day, but even, even in, even while living the realities, you know, the whole kind of can't see the forest for the trees. 

Sometimes it's not, and it's like, you're living the reality, but you don't necessarily see the depth of the systemic impacts. It just is what it is like, this is just our lives. You know what I mean? It's not necessarily compared to someone else cause you don't really realize that. Yeah. Yeah. 

Monica (12m 14s): Well, and I think, you know, the idea that you just mentioned that, you know, I think a lot of us have heard that, you know, you know, zip codes or, you know, poverty, or a lot of the reasons why, you know, they're sort of like, it's a disenfranchised group that has been, didn't have really a voice or didn't really understand that this whatever shell or not to, you know, but anyway, we will, you know, oil companies are not great, you know, these big corporations that are doing downstream, you know, releases and, you know, they didn't really have a voice, but I think it's interesting that you're saying that it's, it's more than class, it's race, which is even, which is even worse. 

Right. And so, you know, but you talk about so many things, right. And so a lot of people are just like, I don't know what to do. You're giving me way too many. One of those, one of those things is, is like, how can I help? But now I'm like a little bit paralyzed. How, what is the NAACP like, how are they, you know, or like working towards sort of figuring out how to change the system and, or unpack some of these issues because you know, just education is, is a hot topic. 

And I think it's super important one that you brought up. But I think that the climate change is just the threat multiplier of it makes it all worse. Right? You, you could have been in that situation. And now we have a hurricane that rolls through and we've destroyed, you know, everything on top of all these systematic issues that are there. So, so how do we, how do we start? Where do we start? And I don't know if there there's really one place, but tell us like, as a, as a listener, like, okay, we've got a lot of problems. What can we do to start unpacking this? 

Jacqui (14m 04s): So one thing like often I get asked the question about how to, what's one thing that can be done. And, and of course, like you said, there's so many things that need to be done. One critical start is getting money out of politics, campaign finance reform, because so many of the interests that want to maintain the status quo are, are the ones that are resulting in the lack of public health, environmental protections, and so forth and, and pushing this agenda. 

So that's, that's one thing that we have to do. Like, we all have to kind of coalesce around, but otherwise I, back in 2015, I wrote this thing 15, maybe 20 things you can do to advance a sustainable planet, recognizing that, you know, that everybody needs to have their own entry point to get in and do what needs to be done. And everybody can do something. You know, whether it's gardening a conversation at dinner, you know, that, you know, that leads to something you just never know what all's, what spark, will make change, or whether it is beginning to grow your own. 

I, I, during the pandemic I had through this whole balcony garden on my tiny condo balcony, where I grew my own tomatoes and peppers and onions and, you know, various herbs and so forth. And then, you know, just doing that and taking one trip, one trip to the grocery store off, or many trips to the grocery store off of my agenda or, or those trucks that would have otherwise truck, those things into, you know, like, so just to beginning to one by one shift, that system, a food system that is contributing to not only kind of the dis– the unhealthiness in our communities, but also contributing to the greenhouse gas emissions and other polutants set that charge our, our atmosphere. 

And so, so, so I talk about all these different things you can do from the very small to things like running, you know, supporting political campaigns or running for office oneself and being educated and informed as you serve in office to starting a community, a community, whether it's your own tiny balcony garden, or it's starting a community co-op, or whether it's your own, you know, energy efficient, being more energy efficient in your home, or starting a community solar micro grid. 

So like wherever you can get in and start doing all these things that need to be done is, is a step in the right direction. And there's people who can do it at scale. And there's people who can do it at the end of the visual level, but the key is that we all need to be doing something in the right direction. So that's what I say when people get too overwhelmed. And then also these, like, once you started doing one thing, it becomes an entry point for them to start to do more, but just kind of do what's digestible and doable in that moment. 

And I keep thinking about how do you challenge yourself to scale up from an individual level and so forth? 

Monica (17m 23s): Yeah. I like how you did that. You found your purpose, your capabilities and your strengths, and you sort of came together. Like, I think it was Catherine Wilkerson who, you know, you wrote part of the anthology of All We Can Say. I think that when we interviewed her, not on this podcast, but another one about, you know, kind of finding your superpower, which I think is a really wonderful way to sort of think about what can I do, you know? Cause it has to be personal. Right. But tell me a little bit about the essay that you wrote. 

It was an amazing essay. And, and for me, just like, even thinking about what you can do, you know, for us here on biophilic solutions, one of our big things is awareness, right? How can we share stories and ideas with people that have ideally scalable solutions? Right. So what would you tell people who are struggling or feeling paralyzed in your work, you tackle so many issues and such intense inequity that I wonder if you ever encounter people who just freeze because they don't know how to deal with it or where to start. How do you, how do you begin to tackle those inequities and then tackle how people respond? 

Jacqui (18m 32s): Yeah. So I don't remember what all I said in the essay. So I'll, I'll just maybe just give a couple of examples of exactly. Yeah. So, 

Monica (20m 47s): And one of the things that was in there is about Jamaica and, you know, how, you know, with extreme weather, and that was, I think it was hurricane Gilbert, you know, just these examples of how, again, the climate, the climate change that is here, and that is only going to get increasingly, I guess, worse, you know, how do we, maybe it's even try, start to plan better for this. 

So anything you want to talk about in that area, I would love, you know, just sort of one of those sort of examples that the good has come out of these things, you know? 

Jacqui (21m 33s): Okay. So, so yeah, I mean, I, I will just say in terms of, I mean, sorry, so everything you say kind of makes me, let me tell you, I think I'm going to say something, then you say something that makes me think it, so in terms of going back to your original question about inequities, and then maybe I'll talk about the good, I don't know, but anyway, so inequities, I mean, one of the things that we talk about is as we, as we examine kind of the, the system, the system and underpinnings of the extreme disparities, they really start from the founding. 

Like when we were talking about in the United States, the founding of this nation, you know, there's kind of a lot of like romanticizing of the, of the founding fathers and, you know, for fathers and all these type of things, all the fathers. But, but we know that that unfortunately the very kind of principles and practices of extraction exploitation, domination that were at the very core of how the, what has become known as the United States of America came into being have been just made more sophisticated to some extent, over time, but it's the same kind of core practices of extractivism, exploitation, domination. 

And until we faced that and then, and address that as kind of core operational principles, we're going to, so whether, so whether it is the, the, the pandemic and the ways that we saw that play out, even in the pandemic to, to climate change, to the economic crisis, to the racial awakening, I mean, it still has that same rot at the core. 

And until we kind of address that rot, we're not going to be able to make true progress. So I know, and I know that that can even seem overwhelming. And at the same time, at the same time, we see hope in like the mutual aid that we see that we see in the context of the pandemic, the, the, the, the, the random acts of kindness and connection that we hear about everyday, all day. 

So that, that the rot and the perpetuation and the, and the kind of enclosure and protection of that rot is really in some ways being done by a very finite few. And then there's the rest of us that, that are really operating in love and altruism. And then there's the folks who, who have allowed themselves to be corrupted by the manipulations of the folks who want to protect the rot. 

And, and those are the folks who are acting on fear. So like the folks who were the, the white nationalists who have become black lives matter activists, so they were never white nationalists. It's not like they were just evil people at their core who are just out to, there were people who didn't understand and who were, who were led down the wrong path and led down this path of scarcity and, and then feeling fear, feeling threatened and reacting in that sense, in that way to that fear and to that false narrative.

And so, so, so really in some ways, it's, it's simple. And that's why I kind of go back to getting money out of politics, because we have to get the, the rot protectors out of power. And that that's really the very essence of it. And so, and so I think all of us, you know, not all of us, like the, the, the 99% who would love, you know, would love to see the, the, you know, protection of, of, of our natural resources. And the 99% would love to see us all, be able to have enough, to eat, to have enough, to have clean water, to drink, have clean air and so forth. So it really is a matter of us kind of understanding that, understanding what's manipulating the system coming together to get to, to dismantle, dismantle the system that, you know, that capitalizes and that oppresses and, and really embraces the, the abundance. 

And we know we have in our society, there's, you know, the sun rises every day, the wind blows, like we have enough, we have enough, you know, we have a regenerative earth systems that, that create more than enough that we need. And what we need is for everyone to understand that, embrace that. And for us to develop our systems around that instead of our systems around kind of enclosure of wealth and power, and, you know, in the hands of a finite view. So that's kind of my meta analysis 

Jennifer (26m 50s): I love that. I think what you're doing really is your work is all about our connectivity to nature, right? So we're all in harmony with nature when we really understand the systems of how we thrive together and how we suffer when we’re separate. And I think like, you even just talk about like, how do we start? It's like the simple act of, instead of going to the grocery store to get food and all that happens to that timeframe, why don't we build a garden in our, you know, I try and do that. I live in New York city, so it's really hard to do that outside my window on the 11th floor, but it's like simple little acts that we can do that make a difference from understanding how food is grown, how soil is made, how we become stronger together in harmony with nature. 

And that, that's where we thrive. That's where there's a symbiotic-ness in ourselves and nature and how we thrive, like that's where we learn inclusivity. That's where we learn diversity is we know we're all, like when you look at the trees and the plants around us, you think, how, how do they all thrive together? It's because we are all working in unison, right. So I think the bottom of your work is all about those teachings. Right. And it's really beautiful. And it's, so once you get to those little inner pinnings, underpinnings of what you're doing, it's like, that's, that's it right. The beauty of it all. 

Monica (28m 15s): Well, and I think, I think, again, that we have enough, right. But there is this, you know, false narrative and fear that wants us to hold and extract. And instead of understanding that it's sort of this sharing hopeful, which again, like, I think there was just a, I mean, I think there's been a bunch of books on trees and how, you know, they speak to each other through the roots and the mushrooms and, and sort of that co-living, if you will, is a great example. 

I feel like there was something just recently in like the New York Times, but like, you know, maybe we need to take a, you know, take a lesson from the trees and how, you know, when one isn't doing well, it helps out the other. And I think you're right. The humanity that we saw through the devastation of COVID was, was really beautiful of people helping out each other, and that is true. The, the majority is that way. And, you know, sometimes I would want to say sometimes, but you know, the powers that be, or, you know, the people who want to keep the rot going and, and hold on to that wealth and power in a negative way, they're the ones instilling the fear in us because they want to divide us. Because if we're divided, we're not going to come together and demand reform, you know, in campaign finance, campaign finance reform, you know, because if we're fighting over resources or whatever it is, jobs, you know, then we're not going to come together again. 

And so I just think you're so right, that, that in Jennifer to this like nature is we always say nature has the answers. Do you have some places that you like to send people to engage in sort of thinking about campaign, campaign, finance reform? Is there an organization you would point people towards like, is the NAACP doing work? Where can we, cause I do like that that is sort of obviously, you know, there's a ton of stuff we can do, but I like that you went to sort of the heart of it. Like that actually is a systematic problem. 

Jacqui (30m 32s): Definitely. Yeah. So one group that's doing work around the whole Citizens United and yeah, it was Move to Amend. So I’d definitely point there, there's also all the groups that are involved in group sites like Democracy Collaborative, the Democracy Initiative that are doing a lot on campaign financial form. Those are ones that come readily off of the top of my head. 

Monica (30m 58s): Yeah, that’s great. Yeah. We'll definitely put those in the show notes. I think that that is something that we can do. I mean, a huge part of it. And it'll be interesting to see as we move into the next election cycle, you know, there were so many more people who were engaged in this past election. So how do we continue to get people to be engaged, right. And, and not in a, you know, you should vote for this person or that person, but truly just educate yourself. What are the issues in your neighborhood? You know? So that could be a city council member or a school board, you know, that how do you, and then I, and I love the, the Run for Something, you know, group, because I think that's super important as well. 

Is that again, no person is too small to do something. In fact, you have a quote, I think it's you, that everybody doesn't have to do everything, but everybody needs to do something. Yeah. So great. I love that. You crystallize it for me, you know? Well, tell us as we're getting sort of to the end of the conversation here, you know, what else do we want– should we know and really be thinking about and supporting the work that you're doing. 

Jacqui (32m 12s): Yeah. Thank you. I would definitely point people to, and I can send the link to the 20 things you can do to advance. Yeah, because that, that gives people, entry points in each of the things has links to follow, to say how they can do it. So I would definitely say that, I would also say to that, to the extent that the people can join and be a member of like a local, whether it's environmental justice group or, or otherwise, that would be great to just get behind and support the leadership of frontline communities. 

When it comes to adjusting, to advancing racial justice and environmental issues, or otherwise, if, if for people who are, who are allies to racial justice efforts, I would point people to Showing Up for Racial Justice, the SURJ. So once community, whether you have one in your community that you can join, or you start one, you'd be a part of a network of folks that you would have those resources you wouldn't, so you wouldn't have to kind of start in and be like, kind of just kind of struggling in the trenches. 

But as soon as you decided to start one, you're a part of like this network of folks who will then kind of walk you through how this thing, yeah. 

Monica (33m 36s): Cause that's it as well. Right. You know, again, people, I think people are good and people want to do something and they don't know what to do, and they don't know where to start. And so again, we're trying to give people the tools, like hopefully some of these conversations spark an interest or like, oh, I could help with that. And so I love that that's Showing Up for Racial Justice. Great. We'll definitely put that in the show notes as well. Well, tell us, last question, like, what's next? 

What are you guys? You know, I'm sure you're going to be super involved in the next election cycle. I think the money out of politics is a really, really good conversation and push. Is there anything else we can do? Should we join the NAACP, become a member? Can we donate? Like what's the, you know, support structure that we can also do there? 

Jacqui (34m 27s): Yeah. Joining would be fantastic. Absolutely joining, particularly one can join one's local unit or which has branches or chapters. If you joined and then started an environmental and climate justice committee. If there isn't already one that would be great, and again, like with surge, you would automatically be connected into this nationwide network of environmental climate justice committees. And there's all of these kinds of toolkits and guidance documents and so forth. 

So it wouldn't have to be like this again, though–. Yeah. So we would love to have that and all are welcome. And yeah, we are with the work of the environmental and climate justice program. It's everything from, from, you know, because of the intersectionality, it's everything from advancing local food, where to, to, to ending the fossil fuels, to pushing for pushing back against water privatization and pushing for public water systems, advancing disaster equity to addressing issues around sea level rise, to pushing for land justice and housing security, because it's a critical part of climate resilience. 

We also have a centering equity in the sustainable building sector initiative, which really pushes for our buildings to, as we talked about before, to model, like to, to follow the models of biomimicry and really having all of the buildings be in regenerative design. And again, and with a goal of, as you said as well, like are all of our systems following biomimicry because really the regenerative cooperative ways that our ecology edits mood has been, you know, operates is the way that we, that we, that we navigate all of the, and avoid the eruption of new crises and navigate our existing crisis towards kind of not just surviving, but actually thriving. Yeah. 

Jennifer (36m 42s): Right, right. Exactly. Biomimicry is the way that we have to follow how we survive and thrive and grow together. Thank you, Jackie. Thank you for your time today. Thanks for being a part of this conversation helping us share your story and your wealth of information and time you've spent to teach all of us. 

Monica (37m 4s): Definitely. We're excited to have you part of the biophilic solution. 

Monica (36m 44s): That was incredible talks about a whole host of issues that are really heavy field, kind of it's possible, but I feel totally energized. And I feel like I have the tools to start chipping away. 

Jennifer (36m 58s): I could not agree more campaign finance reform is not the answer I was expecting, but it really makes so much sense. I think there's a lot of public will detect issues like systemic racism and poverty and climate, but we had to get special interests out of the political structure in order to really start doing that. 

And just like Jackie said, there's really a very finite group of people who are protecting the status quo. And we recognize that there are plenty of resources for all of us to share for abundance if we can really start to take back that power. Absolutely. And for anyone who's struck by that answer about campaign finance reform, we've linked to the two organizations that Jackie mentioned in our show notes, so it’ll be really easy to dive in. But if anyone is listening to start growing your own vegetables, get connected to the food system, donating extra dollars to the NAACP, or join their local SURJ chapter, although these things may feel small, when they’re replicated hundreds or thousands of times, you know, they really do have massive impacts. Anyway, we don't have to bear the entire weight or an entire movement on our shoulders, but if we tell ourselves that it’s too hard or too complicated to even get started then nothings going to change. 

Jennifer (38m 17s): Exactly, I think Jackie said it best. I loved this, “everybody doesn't have to do everything, but everybody needs to do something”. 

Monica (38m 22s): Exactly. I couldn't agree more. All right, until next time, Jennifer.