How Do We Build a Biophilic Movement?

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Monica (31s): Hey Jennifer

Jennifer (32s): Hi Monica. 

Monica (33s): What are we doing here today? 

Jennifer (35s): We are talking about why we made this podcast and who we are actually, we never discussed who we are and why we're here. 

Monica (43s): I know we're already seven episodes in, which is pretty exciting. 

Jennifer (46s): I think it's awesome. So I think it's about time, don't you? 

Monica (49s): Yeah I think so. I think we've had some great people on, and so now it's sort of a good opportunity to sort of like take stock we're in the middle of the summer, you know, what are we doing here? And, and, and why is everybody coming along with us? 

Jennifer (1m 2s): Exactly. That's such a good point. It's been so interesting so far and I'm just like each episode gets better and better and I'm learning so much. And I think the more we share these voices, the better off we are to describe why we need nature now, more than ever. 

Monica (1m 19s): Yeah. No it is super important. And, you know, I think I really wanted to start this because of the confusion or really the unknown-ness. Is that a word? Around biophilia. Nobody really knows what it is. And still today I bring it up a lot when I talk to people and I get a lot of blank stares, but a lot of interest. So I tend to try and, you know, explain it to them and you know, what the, where it came from and how, but it's really a love of nature. It's a connection to nature that we all need. We're all connected, animals, other people, the planet and so, how do we sort of honor that and rethink how we're living in a more thoughtful way to make sure that we're living, if you will like a biophilic lifestyle. 

Jennifer (2m 5s): Yes. And also the fact that not only that we have to protect nature, but the fact that we become healthier humans when we are reconnected to nature. I think that's the biggest thing that you just said when you try and discuss what biophilia is, people are like the blank stare of, I don't even know what you're talking about. That sounds like a foreign word. I don't, I don't get it, but it is that innate connection to all living things and the natural world. And when we disconnect from nature, we become unwell and we can really see that. 

And the people we've been talking to and everything that we've been learning and sharing it's, it's so profound and it's, it's so obvious, right? So obvious just to see why we need more biophilia and how we become so separate from the natural world. And it's really played such an impact on our, on our health and wellbeing.

Monica (2m 54s): Yeah and I think, you know, COVID has sort of brought it to the forefront for everybody that being outside was safer and being in nature is obviously, you know, feels good and it's valuable. And, and then, you know, being able to engage with people outside has been safer. So, so how do we sort of continue to think about, or I really think about, you know, as a very open thing, like no membership required, how do we build a biophilic movement? 

And for me that just starts with education and awareness, like how do we raise awareness that there is this sort of idea, this hypothesis of, of, you know, having this love of nature and needing the connection. And if we sort of re-engage or reconnect, like you're saying with nature, then, you know, hopefully we'll spread it to other people. Hopefully our conversations are sparking new ideas, things that we'd never thought about. Like Tim, Beatley's talking about ethical cities, like I'd never thought about like a city being ethical. 

And I just think that really sticks with me. And when I read news reports or articles or talked to people, I really kind of hold that close as well as the perspective of Drew and being a black man and a birder and from his lens and eyes, you know, what he needs to consider when he's out birding, you know, as we know, you know, having lived in New York and having dealt with that awful situation last summer, you know, I just think that if we can bring people together, if we can create awareness, maybe we can grow a biophilic movement. And I think that a lot of people are already in the movement that they don't realize. 

Jennifer (4m 42s): I'm so glad you said that. I think that's the, that's the key, right? We're all we all want to do better. And I think when I was, you know, outside, I'm always walking in Central Park and I would be with people and I think we become so separate, but once you're in it, and you're starting to learn about the landscape around you, you can't unsee it. You can't, un-know it, because then you're there and you're like, wow, this tree’s blooming so beautifully. I don't even know what this is. And then you kind of discover and the more time you spend in it, the more you want to know more about it, you're like, oh, I didn't know this was so beautiful. Why is there a Gingko tree in my backyard? I had no idea Gingko grew here. And then you start learning about the bulbs of the Gingko tree. I think this constant understanding of your space and place and time, and you start to get to know the landscape and, and the seasons. And I think the more time we spend in nature, the more we want to protect that, which we know, understand and love. I think Richard Lou always talked about that and it really like embedded into me a long time ago, you're right. We want to protect that, which we know and understand and love.

Monica (5m 42s): Yeah, that's great. It's like demystifying, some of it, you know, a lot of people don't get out of nature, didn't grow up camping. I mean, I didn't really grow up camping, but I do think, you know, one of the things, when you do your nature walks for like, whether that's a private or for the big boards and corporations that you do to try and get their, you know, teams thinking healthier and, you know, mental health is such an issue right now with people with COVID and then people trying to come back to the workplace. It's so important what you're doing to bring corporate teams into nature, like just a walk in Central Park. 

And so one of the things when I've gone on your walks before, which are amazing, is, you know, you ask people to touch things, which sounds so silly. Right. But it's like touch nature, like smell nature, even like, you know, pick up a rock or pick up the dirt, you know? Cause we, sometimes we're moving so fast. Like even if I'm like, oh, I'm going to walk through central park or I'm going to walk through the trails at Serenbe. You know, if I'm just sort of thinking about it as a point A to B, you're still getting the benefits of being in nature and seeing the green space and having that moment. But if you really stop and take a breath. 

Jennifer (6m 52s): Yes, yes. 

Monica (6m 54s): I just think that's, that's sort of incredible. And again, it goes back to these very simple ideas. A lot of them are common sense. So once somebody says it, they're like, oh, of course I should stop and really look at the leaf and you know, say, can I just start to decipher what kind of tree that is? Or the colors of the birds. 

Jennifer (7m 14s): Yeah, all of that. And it just touching, like you just said, we are, we're moving so quickly that we forgot to actually touch the living organisms around us because we're, so we're system we've been told to sterilize ourselves and wash ourselves and, you know, clean, clean, clean our hands, but everyone's not touching living microorganisms that we need to touch to really, you know, have our, our microbiome be in harmony with our bodies. So I think the getting dirty before we get clean is really, really important. I think we're going to see a lot more of that. We've been talking about that. 

Monica (7m 48s): I think we're going to have a guest coming on, talking about that, which will be really great. 

Jennifer (7m 52s): I know, I cannot wait to have her on because she's been a real leader in this space of getting dirty before we get clean. And I think getting dirty is going to be a huge part of what we're going to look for, especially in beauty and wellness going forward. 

Monica (8m 5s): Yeah. Well, and I think the miss- trying to sort of, oh, what's, what's sort of the right word, demystify things or, and, or misconceptions cause you talk about getting dirty. Right. And so I think people have thought of nature and outdoorsy and people who camp or whatever, only eat veggies as these hippies and you sort of dirty, oh, you know, it's sort of off the main stream or off the grid. And I think, you know, places like Serenbe can start to say, no, you can live this really biophilic life and not, you know, live in a hut in the woods and never shower. 

And that's the other thing is I think a lot of times people look at me like I'm giving them some weird education on this term, again, that it's fringe. And so how do we bring it into the mainstream by bringing on, you know, really interesting people, you know, you and I are having conversations and we have questions. And so we've either stumbled across these individuals or we've had a specific question, like we want to learn more about, you know, well, you know, everybody talks about eco fashion or sustainable fashion. 

Like what does that mean? Because you see these huge brands that are traditionally fast fashion, you know, talking about it. And so how is there a biophilic way to think about, you know, the way we close ourselves? Well, as, you know, beauty, what we put on our body as well as again, ethical cities. And a lot of times people will think, oh, those are, those are like one is squishy and one is hard. Like these topics are. But I really think that we, people, we talk about all those things. Like we can be talking about style and fashion and be a little fluffy if you will, but we can also talk about really, you know, more hard science, you know, why trees are really important for health and everything. So I like the idea of not being one or the other. Right. 

Jennifer (10m 6s): That's it, that's exactly what nature provides. Right. And you think about what Bill Browning shared with us about the space, our impact of space and place and nature and the biophilic indoor spaces. And even Dr. Phil Tabb sharing his numinous spaces. And it's just, there's so much, like you said, common sense, but there's so much we can learn from those ebbs and flows of life that we kind of put the barriers to learn more because like you just said, something seemed too fluffy or too, I don't know about that. But now thankfully there's so much science and there's so much data around how our bodies respond to certain places. 

And that test scores go up for children when they're more in touch with nature. And that we get healthier when we're in a hospital when we view nature and that these numinous spaces that Dr. Phil Tabb speaks about in homes or places that, that resonate deeply within us that give us a positive feeling of beauty and awe, and resonance. I mean, it's profound. It's really, *coughs* as my cold takes over, it's profound. When you think about it's all, it's all there. 

So it doesn't have to be squishy. It's all a part of the human existence.

Monica (11m 17s): Right. Right. Well, and I think that again, you know, each word of mouth is so important and I think each time we talk to somebody, it doesn't matter who it is. And we can start to explain what biophilia is and the importance of it. It's just another way to look at nature. Right? It's another way that we can have a conversation about, you know, planetary health and our health and the health of the living, you know, animals and the plants that are on the planet. And, you know, maybe question mark, right. It doesn't have to be this, oh, my side, your side kind of business, you know, why, why can't it just be our we're all in this together? You know? Well, somebody that I love, you know that I love is Douglas Rushkoff with Team Human. 

And his work is so profound because it's saying like, you're all on team human and you're already here together and we're all in this together. And sort of, we have to work together to kind of fix everything if you will. And so again, one by one day by day, figuring out, you know, what is your superpower? Cause that's the other thing, somebody, I was reading something the other day and somebody said, oh, well, how, how can I become an activist to, you know, whatever, push this, whatever concept forward. 

That just feels too big and too something I don't, I don't quite know. And it's not as if, you know, I mean, I think activism is fantastic, but as a general person, like, I don't know how I would become “an activist”, but rather what are the topics and issues that matter to me? And then I can go “advocate for them”, whether that's writing, you know, a $10 check to somebody or giving volunteer hours, or I believe that, you know, just sharing information is really great, but I think we, we get, or again, I'll speak for myself, like wrapped up in, oh my God, I don't know how to do good. 

So I'm not going to do anything. So hopefully this podcast is a little bit of good that we can put out in the world. 

Jennifer (15m 20s): Yeah. And I think you're the walking proof of that. I'm just going to toot your horn for a second because you helped open my eyes. And Serenbe helped open my eyes to the possibility of how we can live. Because here I sit in my New York City apartment and there you are at Serenbe, but my experience going to Serenbe because of meeting you and Steve Nygren, I was able to see for the first time, what life could be like in harmony with nature. You know, I grew up in the Bronx and I lived in Westchester, New York. And I lived in Florida in different places, but going to Serenbe was this, oh my gosh experience of, I had no idea that this could be a way of life. And when I told Steve, oh gosh, I hate to leave here. I have to go back to reality. And then he said to me, Jennifer, this is reality. And I thought, oh my gosh, you're able to get– of course it is. That's why everyone lives here, but it just didn't even dawn on me before I got there, that there was a possibility to live the way you live and you speak it so eloquently. And so personally that everyone else can have this connection to nature, it doesn't have to be just Serenbe, but you can have a life that's more in tune and in harmony with one another and in nature. And that's what you have taught me over the past few years. And it's, it's really changed me. 

Monica (16m 37s): Well thank you. Yeah. I do think that people come to Serenbe, and they don't think it's real, or people use the word utopia and they can't quite wrap their heads around it. And I think that that's unfortunate that this isn’t a more normal or, or I don't wanna say normal, a more typical way to live. But I think the, the positive, the, the uplifting concept is, you know, you don't have to live at Serenbe, you know, obviously we would love you to, but like it, you know, it's not have to be for everybody, but you can come or even just hear about it and take away the things that work for you. 

Right. And so part of what we're trying to do, which I, which I also see in your work is just trying to expose people to new ways to live, different ways to think, plan a blueberry bush at your house, you know, find a local farmer. Think about when you are buying a house, like, are there sidewalks? You know, how are their porches, how close are the houses together? Will I know my neighbor, you know, what, what are the ways that I can have community engagement? 

You know, do I have access to, you know, a trail head and, or just access to like a nature trail, right? Just something besides that little square patch of, of grass. So it's really about modeling and being, here I'm going to go back to the advocacy word, which I like don't really want to hold, but being an advocate for a more thoughtful way to live, and that is taking, you know, like you've done, you know, taking a board during a board retreat and walking them, you know, on a nature walk and asking them, you know, what this is doing to them. 

And it changes them profoundly after an hour and a half in nature. And again, it's just putting on almost like new lenses and seeing things through new eyes. And so I think that's what it does for people when they come to Serenbe just like, and obviously nature, nature's all around us here, but just like, you know, going whatever to Yosemite, like it's a different way to think. What's, what's nice about this is you can kind of take back a lot of those tenants and hopefully incorporate them into your lives. And or when you do make a decision to move, rethinking what type of neighborhood you want to be in. 

And hey, do you know if a developer or landowner wants to build, you know, like Serenbe a hundred percent, that is exactly what we want. We want more of this. So the people come and don't say, well, this doesn't, I don't understand this. This is why are there kids running around on their own and why are people talking to each other? Or my favorite, the Men's Health article, why is everybody waving at me? 

Jennifer (19m 34s): Oh my gosh, it’s such a Serenbe thing, I love it. 

Monica (19m 40s): Like, well, why isn't everybody waving at each other in other cities? You know, it's sort of, but again, once you ask that question and I think that again, that's what we're doing to bring it back. Like, you know, once you ask the question, why isn't everybody waving at me, or why is, why aren't people smiling at me and looking me in the eye, you know, on the street, you know, why aren't we saving more land? You know, why aren't there more trees in, you know, in cities with an eq- sorry, I should repeat that. Like, why aren't, why don't we have an equitable amount of trees in cities and why is it people with money versus less money? Like, it's terrible, you know? And so once we asked these questions, 

Jennifer (20m 28s): It's such a great point

Monica (20m 30s): We’re aware. We can have a conversation about it and we don't have to be perfect. Like we’re just learning how, yeah. And then we can potentially like talk to our city planner or city council member, or whoever represents us or our developer. We put pressure on the marketplace and then the marketplace changes. Right. 

Jennifer (20m 50s): And they're small, they're small little moments. Even like, when you go to a grocery store, if you can't smell the fruits and vegetables in your grocery store, like, that's what I've learned too. Like, from our conversations, it's like, oh my gosh, if you can't smell that, that's a problem. Like, that's, that means the fruits and vegetables are not, they're not, you know, they've been there for a while. So once I go to the grocery store and can actually smell the fruits and vegetables, I think, oh, I can smell them. That means they're good for me. That means they’re fresh. That means I haven't been handed down or, you know, come from a different country or whatever. 

I think it's so important that we have, like you just said, have these conversations. So we learn. And like you also said, we're not perfect. We want to explore what's going on out there. So we can be better citizens of the planet and continuously learn from one another. And how do we be better? Like Drew said, on our most recent podcasts, like, be better. Can we, we can be better. So if we continuously want to learn and be that kind of person and then share what we learned with others, that's the key to becoming better citizens, I believe. 

Monica (31m 51s): Okay. So hopefully, I don't know if you guys are still listening to us as we've been rambling on here and talking to each other, cause we can sit and talk to each other for hours, you're getting a sense of what the podcast is about. And hopefully if you haven't listened, we definitely want you to go back and listen to the past seven that we've done. But we also want to give you a little bit of an idea of who we're going to be talking to in the future. We have Florence Williams who is going to be coming up late summer, who is the author of nature fix, who is incredible. 

And she's also doing an outside podcast right now, which you definitely should listen to. We haven't booked her in yet, but we know that Yasmina who was the founder of Mother Dirt, who is, God, I don't even know. I'm like, I'm going to make this up, like an MIT microbiologist who's and she's going to come on the show and talk to us about biology. And she said to me the other day, listen, biology is the original technology. Hmm. I love that. 

Jennifer (22m 51s): Oh I love that. Yeah, that's great. 

Monica (22m 53s): She sees that as a whole foray for us in the future. So we'll talk to her about that. Gosh, who do we have? We've got Beth who's in charge of programming at American Farmland Trust. Yep. Jackie with the NAACP who is in charge of gosh, all of the environmental work that they're doing, we're talking to her next week. And so we just want you to come along for the ride, you know, send us if you have people that you think we should be interviewing, we'd love to hear from you. 

We come out every other week and you know, again, we just want everybody to join us on the biophilic movement. So I guess what do we say? Subscribe, follow what's the latest term these days?

Jennifer (23m 36s): Share, we want to hear feedback. We'd love your feedback too, and be a part of the conversation with us. We are all, we're all ears we want to learn and listen and share with you with us, what you're thinking in terms of biophilia and definitely share our stories. We'd love your feedback and your thoughts and keep this moment and this movement going forward. 

Monica (23m 59s): Yeah. So join us on this biophilic movement. Follow and subscribe today.

Monica (24m 08s): Biophilic Leadership Summit provides an annual platform for biophilic leaders to gather with their peers, to learn about and discuss the most impactful biophilic projects, principals and research. Presentations focus on biophilic concepts that have measurable outcomes and can be replicated at scale. From these talks, leaders discuss the best applications of biophilia to dissect the biophilia effect on health and wellness, sustainability, and global warming and how it affects their work policies and future developments. 

This year's summit theme is Biophilia Scale, Earth and Water and presentations will focus on land use and infrastructure. Join the Biophilic Summit hosted by the Biophilic Institute Biophilic cities and Serenbe, and engage with other passionate leaders about biophilia at the fourth annual summit. Visit biophilicsummit.com to learn more about the 2021 Biophilic Leadership Summit this October 10th through 13th. That's the biophilicsummit.com.